Okay, any of you ever have a thought in the night, that gets your attention. Happens to me allot. More than most, I assume.
The point was made here on the blog justifying abortion, by saying that the more abortions there are, the less crime there is. That has stuck in my craw since then. Firs to say, killing unborn Americans children, is justifiable is sickening. But we have been over that trail already.
Using her justification, then, why do liberals want government control of health care. If the "poor" do not get the care they need, they will die. According to justification on the pro abortion side, the more who are dead, the less crime there will be.
I am curious to see how this is explained.
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I have no interest in the abortion debate but I do find your position on health care intriguing. I seem to recall you have only catastrophic insurance because you can't afford regular insurance (or something like that). It is a travesty when a man works a full time job and still can't provide quality health care for his family. This common condition speaks volumes on the state of our broken system. I find it hard to believe you would let your political ideology stand in the way of your family's health and well being. I'm sure there must be something I've missed. Please explain.
Not to seem like a dick or anything but I do notice where DRL refers to the travesty of killing unborn "american children".
Are we to infer from this that killing say, unborn chinese children is somewhat less of a travesty?
Just trying to keep up here.
Doug, I was thinking the same thing.
Yes RAC. I pay for doctors visits, preventive checkups, but if a hospital visit is needed, it pays almost all of it. I only paid $2,500 out of pocket for my back surgery. The room alone was $40,000 for 3 days.
I also have AFLAC, which pays part of that out of pocket expense. I do not want the government taxing my neighbors to pay for what is my responsibility, my family.
My point earlier on the health care issue, is why should I pay for someones health care when they bought a home, or new car, or stereo, or beer, etc.............
I am responsible for my family, not you or the government.
Doug, you are not a dick or anything. Ask me any question if you are not sure what I have said.
I referred to "American Children" because that is what the discussion in on. Not Chinese or Mexican children. It is our Government who made it legal to kill the unborn American children. It is also the American government who wants to tax us for health care. So, on this issue, it is Americans.
I have in the past referenced Chinese aborting female children. Simply because male children hold a higher value in Chinese society. Every human child holds the same value to me and God. I hate abortions of any race. I hate the devalue of women.
Do any of you remember a few years back when Mexican women were being paid to get pregnant, just to have the child aborted in Texas for fetal tissue. That upset me, even regardless of the child's ethnic or citizenship.
Life holds the same value throughout the whole of the earth.
DRL, I assure you the quality of care available to your family is not the same as for those of us who are fully insured. I have seen firsthand how the level of insurance coverage dictates what gets treated and/or tested and what does not. When Rush, Glen and Sean tell you how to think about health care reform, you can bet they can afford to.
Also, do you have any references to your Mexican women/Texas claim? I've never heard that story before and to be honest it sounds a bit fishy. Urban legend per chance?
rac, it was in 2000. ABC's 20/20 did an undercover type investigation into the illegal harvesting of aborted fetal tissue. I can't remember which university that was involved. But, some of the women involved were Mexican women "paid to get pregnant" then abort the children for sale.
That was when congress pushed to make it illegal to sell fetal tissue for medical research. Michael Fox and Christopher Reeve were upset about it. That part may help you to remember.
I don't have a link, but google 20/20.
Oh, and the discussion here was not on abortion, but rather the belief that America is much better off with the "unwanted Americans" alive.
So, if it is true and believed by the pro-abortion group here, then why give the poor better medical care?
RAC, by the way, I forgot to answer about my quality of health care. I would bet that I have better health care than most out there. My family doctor has been my doctor since before Jill and I were married. He has dealt with all my problems since then. He even assisted in the surgery on my back. He delivered both my daughters. Not many people can say that anymore. I would loose that under a government controlled health care.
Sorry, Juliet, I just thought of something else.
RAC, if your argument is the more you pay for health insurance, the better care you get, then socialised health care (ergo: free) is the worst you can have.
Actually I think the point was being made that those that are lacking or devoid of coverage do not enjoy the same level of care as the fully insured.
I don't know of any credible participant in this discussion claiming universal health care would be free.
In fact, the enormous cost seems to be one of the major detriments to the idea.
So drl your doctor is your back surgeon and OBGYN guy. I think I would go to a specialist and get a second opinion.
Why do you always say you will lose your doctor under a GOV. controlled health care system? I don't get where that is written in stone. I can go to any doctor I want over here.
DRL, does this "family doctor health plan" you have provide free mammograms, colonoscopies, prostate exams, cholesterol checks, prescription drugs, etc.? Or do you pay for these out of pocket? Or maybe you forgo these preventative measures for you and your family in the interest of buying food and paying the mortgage?
costhelper.com: "For those not covered by health insurance, the cost of colonoscopy varies by provider and geographic region, usually ranging from $2,010 to $3,764, with an average of $3,081, according to Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina."
Wow,Thank God my husband has health and dental for us.Here on Guam,they've just made it where you must pay for the ambulance and time before checking out of G.M.H.
Someone has to foot the bill...
I don't have health insurance. If I get sick, It's like heal thy self. 50 years old and I know I should be having all the tests that 50 yr old women should have. I'm unemployed now, but when I was working for Big Lots, they made sure we fell below the "full-time, insurance provider slot". Disgusting .
My 25 yr old works his ass off, but no insurance either. Recently he had an accident and shattered his shoulder, requiring surgery. What a joke trying to find a doctor to treat him. It was a feeling of no hope. Nobody gave a shit about this kid. Finally, after many phone calls, found an MD who would treat him, but only after he signed his life away. Thank God the 3 younger adopted boys have health insurance through the state. (govt). I'm so sorry if you have to pay for that drl. We need universal health care. It works. maybe more women like me will get more than 37 days.
DRL, I don't get how you can be so anti-abortion and yet not equally enraged about all the pregnant women and all the living American children who are not getting basic health care services because their families can't afford it?
And I agree with Juliet...if your back doctor is also your OB/GYN, and you say you are in chronic pain maybe it's time to seek a specialist.
First of all,most people that have insurance are overinsured.Meaning they never use it except to see their doctor when they need a refill on their prescriptions.Lots of people have limited insurance for catastrophic events.Benita has her own insurance at her job.I'm not covered.It's really arrogant to assume DRL is neglecting his family because he has catastrophic insurance only.You don't even know what the rest of the family has.And so what if he has the same doctor forever.Benita and I have the same doctor and different insurance.My daughter Justine goes to the same doctor as us if she needs to.There's a common misconception that everybody has to have a specialist based on their age,race,sex or whatever.Jeez the arrogance here is nauseating.Just for the sake of discussion,because someone brought it up,Where do you think Rush,Sean or their ilk go to the doctor? Probably anywhere they want because they can afford to.There are plenty of clinics here(Emergicare)where you can walk in and see a doctor if you think you need to.You have to pay of course but an office visit is like 89 bucks.With insurance(mine)15 bucks.But what are my premiums BI-Weekly.140 bucks.So which way is cheaper really?How often every two weeks do you go see the doctor?Pat you or your son can get insurance for the self employed through any of multiple providers.I'm guessing that no one wants to pay for it.I'm not picking on you and don't want to start a fight.There are also all kinds of community programs where you can get free mammograms and such.You have to be informed.Joanna,you should pay for the ambulance if you call it.GovGuam is bankrupt and GMH is bankrupt because well govguam owns the ambulances(Fire dept)and if you call they must come.So the system gets abused.But if the service were privatized people wouldn't call unless they really needed it knowing upfront they were gonna be charged.
mat, I never said DRL was neglecting his family. The point I was making is the irony of his position. He claims we have the best health care system in the world and yet it is a system he is unable to fully participate in because he can't afford it. And your comment about being over insured is ridiculous. No one ever died from being over insured but there are hundreds of thousands who have kicked it from being under insured. I also find a bit of irony in your own words mat. You advocate the use of "community programs" for people who can't otherwise afford mainstream health care and yet you oppose health care reform. Just who do you think pays for these "community programs"?
BTW, your constant accusation of arrogance is getting tiresome. I'm beginning to think you suffer from an inferiority complex. It is only the meek who think the rest of the world is looking down on them.
Well rac,I guess the first comment on this was yours"I find it hard to believe you would let your political ideology stand in the way of your family's health and well being".And yea I am inferior.To my God and savior.And the meek shall inherit the Earth.Love ya bro!
Unless you think there's a mixed martial arts cage in heaven.And the winner takes it all.Guess we'll just have to wait and see.Hehehehe.
The meek may inherit the Earth but the strong shall inherit the Heavens.
Juliet, My doctor is a board certified surgeon. He assisted a specialist (Orthopedic surgeon) on my back. He has delivered more babies than most OBGYN's (remember, we are a Mormon community), he also does C-sections. One of the problems (acknowledged by both sides on this discussion) is too many specialist visits. Many doctors are afraid to treat something questionable, because of malpractice law suits, so they "refer" the patient to a "specialist". That drives up cost. My doctor has sent us to specialist many times, only if he thinks it is necessary.
The big part of having a family doctor who you know well, and he/she knows you well, is to know what is a necessary referral.
Most socialized health-care mandates who your doctor is and what specialty he/she can do.
The closest to us is Canada, and that is how it is there. I work with a Canadian, who will not see a doctor in Canada.
Look at early Germany, Russia, Cuba, and other socialized health care areas. Even under the Clinton proposed health care, a doctor was told what he/she would do. It almost always works that way, with rare exceptions. I would guess my doctor knows more about it than you and I do. I believe him, I ought to, I trust him with my life and the life of my family.
RAC, yes, it pays for "welness exams". AFLAC also pays for any imaging, so I get extra for mamagrams. Perscriptins are 50/50 for name brand, and $2.00 for generic. Not bad, mabey not the best, but not bad.
Joanna, I believe that bills must be paid before you leave. Mechanics won't let you take your car before it is paid for. Why should the hospital pay for your ambulance ride?
Pat, I have never gone without health insurance. Most jobs I have had didn't provide it. I paid for it myself. Even when I worked part time and Jill was a new beautician (commission and no steady clientele), we did without other stuff and had insurance.
No reason you boy can't have it. Like I said, why should I pay for you boy's health care? He is a responsible adult. Does he know if he joined the military, they would have given him full health care for free? Get rid of what he doesn't need and get insurance.
You can probably get Medicaid and I know children are covered. If your house is more important than your health, then why should I pay for your health care. I have worked as many as 4 jobs in the past to provide for my family, and never taken anything from the government. Both my girls in braces at some time, no dental insurance. I paid for it. We have had our share of health problems, and always came out on top. You can too if you stop wishing for government handouts.
Cindy, pregnant women only have to go into the emergency room (I just called ours in town and they confirmed it) for prenatal exams and delivery. If you are saying that the medical professionals in emergency rooms are not good health providers, I will take you to task on that. They are some of the best in the world. There are surgeons, OBGYS'S, and other specialist on call 24/7. It goes back to responsibility. Hey, these pregnant women can go to "family planning clinics" and get an abortion for free, is that your answer??????
You too did not read what I said. My family doctor "assisted" in my back surgery. He was not the Orthopedic Surgeon, that was a 'different' doctor all together. "Assisted" means my doctor was the second fiddle in the operating room. Dr. Stromberg is a board certified Orthopedic surgeon. He is a specialist in his field.
Now did I explain that well enough for you?
Mat, you are right. Although people feel safe being "over insured". I would, but I know I am okay as I am. Look at "extended warranties" on used cars. Most people don't use them. I have told friends who bought them, to put that money in the bank, and if you don't need use it for car repairs, then go on vacation. But if they don't use the warranty, the money is gone. So, it is sometimes a security issue.
I don't think anyone is saying I am neglecting my family, but that the government knows better how to take care of them than I do. Someday, I will have better insurance. When the girls are gone, I can afford better stuff. Now it is my responsibility to do my best, and not expect the government to take over. "it takes a village" is pure socialism.
The problem with having a "specialist" for every field is, the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Having my family doctor involved with every aspect possible, he know what is being done. If you visit a specialist for every ailment (I know I just exaggerated, not every thing), there is a large probability of drug interaction, or surgery unnecessary.
Pat, I agree with Mat. I hope earlier I didn't upset you. I know money is tight with most everyone. I just know that I have always put the health of my family before anything else. If I had the choice between a house and insurance, I chose insurance. Vacation, cars, gasoline, movies, restraint's, or whatever, always came second to my families health. That is why I said, "why should I pay for someones health care when they buy a house, car, booze, cigarettes, etc... rather than health insurance". I made the point that I have one of the bottom line health insurances, but we do fine.
RAC, I do believe that America has the best health care system in the world. Do you know of a better one? I do not believe that American care is the problem, it is prices. That can be brought under control with things like tort reform, easing of the FDA drug policies, healthy living. Did you know (I know you do) that obesity is the largest (pun intended) health problem in the U.S.?
Oh, and many "community programs" are community, church, organization funded. The government does not put monies into many of them. The best work is often done by other than the government. The community knows where the needs are better than the Federal Government.
Pat, I am so sorry to hear your son is injured. That must have been really painful and scary.
Drl many church funded programs are through Gov. grants.
NEW ORLEANS (ABP) -- Speaking from a pulpit once used by Martin Luther King Jr., President Bush announced Jan. 15 a further expansion of the government's ability to fund social services through churches and other religious groups.
The announcement is the latest in a long series of actions by the Bush administration to make it easier for explicitly religious charities to compete for government grants on the same basis as secular groups. It is commonly referred to as Bush's "faith-based initiative."
http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2534&Itemid=117
Yes Juliet, and Obama has recended some of them. That aside, not evey church organisation or community group took any money. The reason is when they do/did, they have to open to Federal regulations. Telling them how to spend it and so on.
I still stay, even if they are federly funded, the comunity know better how to serve the area better than the Federal Goverment.
drl, Why the hell would I choose to buy insurance instead of having a home to live in? That's just fuckin stupid. If I was living on the streets, the last thing I would care about is health insurance. And believe me, If they hauled me away on a stretcher off the street, you're ass will be paying for it, In one form or another.
BTW Juliet, thank you for the sentiment:)
Pat, what a potty mouth you have.
The reason is this. Your health is more important than a house is. Any dwelling can be a home. I don't know why you assume you would be out on the street if you sold your house. You wouldn't be. There are apartments for rent, and homeless shelters. Even in Idaho falls, there are two old motels that are run by Christian organisations (no, you don't have to be a Christian to stay there), one for women and their children, the other only men.
You are saying that your house is more important than your health.
That was my point on the health care debate. You have decided not to have health care, in order to have a house.
To all,
This is one reason I do and have always supported government health care for children, and food stamps.
I believe when a parent does not support their child with proper health care and food, it is child abuse.
Spending money that could go to the children for food and insurance on things like a house, car, stereo, drugs, booze, trips, you name it, are neglecting their children.
I will never support government health care for able bodied adults, but I love children and hate to see one go hungry or die because of the parents.
So your plan for America is Homeless shelter vs Health care.HAHAHAHHAHA That makes a lot of sense to ...you drl.
Juliet, nope, that is not my plan for America at all.
I think that responsibility is the best thing for Americana's. Your plan is to let people abuse children, so the state can take care of them???
Why not adults act like it, and grow up. Take responsibility for them self and those who depend on them. It is not the government's job to take care of my family. It is a cop out to say so.
When husbands and wives stay together and raise their children, this will be a lot better society. we have already given our children to the government to raise in public schools, which fail miserably. Why turn not only the children but the adults who can take care of themselves over to the care of the government.
Is it true that everyone will or has needed help? Yes. It should be a safety net, not a cradle to grave entitlement. Stop exception others to take care of your responsibility and we will be a better America.
Juliet, I know how you feel about the Bible, but I try to live by it.
2 Thessalonians 3:10 says, "If a man WILL NOT work, he shall not eat."
That is a good rule to live by.
Well Drl if it was a perfect world and mommy and daddy were all real nice and healthy, not like a pedophile or a drunk/ drug abuser or maybe just unlucky to get sick ( which by the way health care costs are the leading cause of bankruptcy). I guess your plan would work but some mommy and daddy's suck big time and just can't get it together to take care of themselves or their kids. Some times people need a change to shift the direction of their lives. I met a lot of church people abroad who live well on the backs of the donations of others. Private schools 3000 dollar a month flats, cars, etc and I guess they get health insurance too.
I like your bible quote ' there are many more spirated with the meaning that say we should help those who can't help themselves.' If the USA and your bible quotes work so well, why do we have so many people in need?
Yes Juliet, both of your quotes are correct and to the point. It is because of sin that we are not in good times. It has always been that way, and will continue. All I can do is strive for the better and to help as I can, others to do better.
Prices need to come down, I agree. But socializing is not the way to do it. When ever the government gets involved in the private sector, it always costs more.
I agree that when Christians live high on the hog off donations, it is wrong. I have never liked a pastor who makes more than the lower paid in the church. Service to God should not be a financial gain. Their treasures should be in Heaven.
I could go on about the abuse of church organisations like "televangelist", "healers", book sales, and on that are a travesty, but that would make this the longest comment on record. I won't do that to you :)
In fact many places in the Bible it instructs us to help those in need. Acts 4:32-37 is a great example of it. But what it says is to help those in "need" not those who do drugs, drinks, lives over their means, etc. That is why competition is for the needy, not for those who want a free ride. Like I said, everyone has or will need help at some time of their lives. If it is a mistake, bad luck, abuse, whatever, they need help. That should not be a life time need, but a helping hand up.
Sorry, I still made this a long comment.
LOL drl, so you think I have a "potty mouth". I can assure you, I would only use that beautiful, multi-meaning word here when it fit...and it fit. I bet you wouldn't call one of the guys on here potty mouths now would you? Hmmmm, I think not.
Oh and remember, Ass and Hell are written in the Bible. The F word is written too, just spelled differently.
Peace
Pat, I know the Bible pretty well, and even spelt differently, F*** is not in there. It in many places talks about sex, but the word you used is not the same.
Oh, and if you google search it, I had a whole post on the bad language on the blog. So, don't accuse me of being a sexist, when I am not. Joanna has not said sorry for calling Dave a racist yet. So watch what you call people.
And I love you too. You are daily in my prayers.
drl, I never said F*** is in there, I said the F word. Think about it dear.
Oh and drl, did I call you sexist? Is your conscious talking? Hey babe, If the shoe fits....
oops, my bad...conscience
Pat, yes you did call me sexist. You said, "I bet you wouldn't call one of the guys on here potty mount now would you? Hmmmm, I think not". That was a sexist remark, thus you calling me a sexist. I am in no way a sexist. No problem with my conscious or conscience (ha).
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