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17 comments:
As in the case where Joanna thought I misspelled, I was happy to clarify through the Biblical text. I don't know every thing, understand everything, or like everything in the Bible, but am happy to help. I would like any other views or takes on any part of the Bible. As I said earlier, one of the best and non argumentative threads, was mine, RAC and Juliets discussion on Theological views. I thank you two again for such a cool headed discussion.
Always wondered what exactly was the 'Chariot of Fire' that Ezekiel road on?
Always wondered what exactly was the 'Chariot of Fire' that Ezekiel road on?
A UFO.
Ric, Good question.
RAC, yes, this has been a common interpretation of the text. Many books have been written about it, and if you were to search most UFO investigation websites, I would imagine you would find it. I would encourage everyone interested to do so.
Ric, don't take this wrong. You have mixed up two stories from the Bible in one question. Ezekiel had the vision of Heaven, and Elijah went up to heaven "in a chariot of fire". He was not in the chariot of fire, but I will get to that. Both are related. I will talk about Ezekiel first.
This is taken out of the book of Ezekiel Chapter 1.
First I want to say that many who study UFOs have a theory that would also co-inside with the Deists belief. The Deist believe that God exists, and created the universe. But then "sat back" and watched it grow, using evolutions to get to its end. UFO enthusiast sometimes believe the same scenario. Life was planted on the Earth (in micro biological forms, or as more advanced forms). They then manipulated just enough to cultivate what their needs are.
Okay, back to the answer. The UFO scenario would then hold that the four wheels (in Ezekiel), and the chariot of fire (Elijah in 2 kings) were UFOs. Remember, this was first of all, just a vision that Ezekiel had of Heaven. What he saw was through the eyes of a human. It is said that no one can look upon God and live. Some have, but remember the descriptions given to the angels with faces and wings. These too are disturbing to our minds. Daniel and others such a John have described Angelic and Demonic beings in the same fashion. One Angel even put a coal from the alter on Ezekiel's tongue/mouth to cleanse him. I believe by other descriptions throughout the Bible, that we can't explain what we don't under stand. So, we use what we know in our environment to describe them. You see this with UFO sightings. "it was saucer shaped", "It was cigar shaped", "Little gray men", and so on. The Cherubim are angels around the Throne of God, you see them elsewhere, Such as the Bemis seat of the Ark of the Covenant.
The Chariot of fire that Elijah rode on is the second part of your question. It was Elijah taken into Heaven. This would also fit in with the UFO enthusiast ideas and beliefs. Elijah was taken up to the "mother ship" or home planet.
The fault in this if you read the sorry in 2 kings the second chapter, Elijah was taken up to Heaven in a whirlwind, not in the chariot of fire. They did see a chariot of fire, but that was not what he rode on. What was it for sure. I leave that to God. I would believe that it was as Ezekiel saw in hes vision, Angels so beautiful, it would be hard to describe. I just remembered, when Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden of Eden, God put Angels at the gate to keep them out. They were said to be "Cherubim". They were described as having "flaming swords which turned every way". I think it is at the end of Genesis chapter 3.
I am happy for spell checking, I couldn't guess how to spell Cherubim.
Oh one other thing. I thought about it and RAC is more correct than I gave him credit.
It was a UFO with Elijah. I believe it was a Cherubim, but it was not "identified" as such. Therefor, it was not identified, or is Unidentified, it was Flying and it was some sort of Object.
You got this one RAC ;)
There is another theory I'm quite fond of which states many ancient symbols refer to actual astrological events. This theory is mostly the work of plasma cosmologist. They believe the universe is driven more by electric rather than gravitational forces. There are some who believe the sky was much different in the not so distant past than it is today. A good primer on the subject can be found here: Thunderbolts of the Gods. A couple good web sites include www.plasmacosmology.net and www.thunderbolts.info
I have always wondered what really happened between David and Johnathan.
Thanks for answering my question DRL! I always get Ezekiel and Elijah mixed up by name. But if I am correct, with both of these men, weren't they both some how involved with, or in Chariots of Fire? And weren't Ezekiel and Elijah the only two in the Bible that never died a physical death?And isn't it that they are to come back in the last days, after the great tribulation?
I am now rereading the Bible, and haven't gotten to those passages yet?
DRL, in response to your reply in a different thread, I would say there are a lot more biblical references to the zodiac than most people are aware... a whole lot more. ;)
And yes you are correct, I was not referring to the zodiac in my original response.
Juls, as RAC and Ric have noticed. I answered your question on the wrong thread. OOOOOOOOOPS!! Oh whell, you gotta look at the "chicken" one your brother put on for your answer.
The Bible has much to say about the stars. Most basic to our understanding of the stars is that God created them. They show His power and majesty. The heavens are God’s “handiwork” (Psalm 8:3; 19:1). He has all the stars numbered and named (Psalm 147:4).
The Bible also teaches that God arranged the stars into recognizable groups that we call constellations. The Bible mentions three of these: Orion, the Bear (Ursa Major), and “the crooked serpent” (most likely Draco) in Job 9:9; 26:13; 38:31-32; and Amos 5:8. The same passages also reference the star group Pleiades (the Seven Stars). God is the One Who “fastens the bands” of these constellations; He is the One who brings them forth, “each in its season.” In Job 38:32, God also points to the “Mazzaroth,” usually translated “constellations.” This is thought by many to be a reference to the twelve constellations of the zodiac.
The constellations have been tracked and studied for millennia. The Egyptians and Greeks knew of the zodiac and used it to measure the beginning of spring centuries before Christ. Much has been written of the meaning of the zodiacal constellations, including theories that they comprise an ancient display of God’s redemptive plan. For example, the constellation Leo can be seen as a celestial depiction of the Lion of the Tribe of Judah (Revelation 5:5), and Virgo could be a reminder of the virgin who bore Christ. However, the Bible does not indicate any “hidden meaning” for these or other constellations.
The Bible says that stars, along with the sun and moon, were given for “signs” and “seasons” (Genesis 1:14); that is, they were meant to mark time for us. They are also “signs” in the sense of navigational “indicators,” and all through history men have used the stars to chart their courses around the globe.
God used the stars as an illustration of His promise to give Abraham an innumerable seed (Genesis 15:5). Thus, every time Abraham looked up at the night sky, he had a reminder of God’s faithfulness and goodness. The final judgment of the earth will be accompanied by astronomical events relating to the stars (Isaiah 13:9-10; Joel 3:15; Matthew 26:29).
Astrology is the “interpretation” of an assumed influence the stars (and planets) exert on human destiny. This is a false belief. The royal astrologers of the Babylonian court were put to shame by God’s prophet Daniel (Daniel 1:20) and were powerless to interpret the king’s dream (Daniel 2:27). God specifies astrologers as among those who will be burned as stubble in God’s judgment (Isaiah 47:13-14). Astrology as a form of divination is expressly forbidden in Scripture (Deuteronomy 18:10-14). God forbade the children of Israel to worship or serve the “host of heaven” (Deuteronomy 4:19). Several times in their history, however, Israel fell into that very sin (2 Kings 17:16 is one example). Their worship of the stars brought God’s judgment each time.
The stars should awaken wonder at God’s power, wisdom, and infinitude. We should use the stars to keep track of time and place and to remind us of God’s faithful, covenant-keeping nature. All the while, we acknowledge the Creator of the heavens. Our wisdom comes from God, not the stars (James 1:5). The Word of God, the Bible, is our guide through life (Psalm 119:105).
RAC, I see now. I thought when you said "astrological" that it referred to "astrology". My bad. Yes I agree that because we see something today, does not mean that was the way it was 2,000 or 5,000 years ago. I believe that "Pangaea" was only about 4 to 6 thousand years ago, then God moved the "earth" as he separated the "peoples".
To you second, yes. Although I do not lean at way, I believe that the "Zodiac" symbols can be found in the Bible. I do not believe that they are related. For example, it is said that the Orion is King Nimrod from the "tower of Babel" story. I do believe that astrology has been around since the days of Babel and hence there have been things passed down throughout generations about it. Whether it is astrology or any the flood. Because every major religion has both woven into it somewhere. It is because the flood happened and Babylon (earlier called Babel, which means "house of God". Later there was Babel in Israel. It also meant "house of god". whenever you see "Bab" in the Bible. It means house(in both Mesopotamian and Hebrew) as does El mean God) was the first city state to extensively study the stars. Sorry, I wander. I will try to stay on one subject at a time. Bible was the first major city after the flood (Biblically) and thus any story would come from it. and the earliest writings would too.
Ric, you go!!!
I will turn this over to you. You did answer what I would have had to look up.
But Ric, remember it was the Magi that came to worship Jesus at his birth. They would have learned of his birth by the writings of Daniel. It was the Magi that showed up, not the Levitical Priests that should have.
I stand corrected - I meant "astronomical".
All is good RAC
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