How does releasing terrorists from Guantanamo Bay make us safer?
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68 comments:
Wow Sean. Very powerful. You know you're gonna get beat up for posting this right? I got your back man. Thanks for reminding everyone what the war on terror was really about. Close Guantanamo and set them free.They have rights after all and we deserved what they did to us because well, because we just did.
To answer your question Sean, it won’t!
And how may of those released already have been recaptured or identified in suicide bombings thus far…more than a few I’ll tell ya.
Glad to see some one has the balls to show what the terrorist did on 911! Thanks Sean! (The mainstream media wont, but they sure have no problems showing the Pearl Harbor Attack).
Teresa and I were in New York that day. So I guess for us, it’s a little more personal. I’ll never forget it! I don’t know anyone that died in that attack, but have a friend that worked in the Twin Towers, he was on his first day of Jury duty when the planes hit. His entire company employees were killed that day. We call our friend “Lucky”, because he is.
Mat, they can attempt to beat Sean up on this one, but we have morality, wisdom and truth on our side! And this one, my gloves wont come off pal. It’s very personal.
Do you have any evidence the terrorists in the video are going to be set free? That's not what the film said. I think by misrepresenting the truth you automatically fail the morality, wisdom and truth test.
P.S. I'd heard a couple of days ago the GOP was going back to the terrorist scare campaign. I'm surprised it took you guys so long to get on board.
RAC, you really can’t be that naïve, can you? The question was “How does releasing terrorists from Guantanamo Bay make us safer”? There was no mention of the/ or evidence the terrorists in the video are going to be set free? The video just described what happened on 911. RAC, do you have an explanation or answer for “how may of those released already have been recaptured or identified in suicide bombings thus far”?
Ric, maybe you should watch the video and read Sean's comments. What he is trying to imply is the people in the video will be set free. If that was true then I would say that would be a big mistake. However, to my knowledge, that is not true... unless you can show me otherwise.
I re-watched the video and re-read Sean's comments. “What he is trying to imply is the people in the video will be set free”. No RAC, what he is mentioning are terrorist’s detainees being held there now, that our current Administration wants to release.
Wants to release where?
Your back yard!
Since there are no prisons in my back yard are you implying they will be free?
Nope, in prisons on US soil. In all our neighborhoods and backyards.
I see.
Then to answer Sean's original question - it won't make us any safer. And it won't make us any less safe either.
Well now, if you think about it a moment. You keep the terrorist locked up on a ‘rock’ and not release them so they will not be able to blow up or kill more civilians or American troops, by all means keep them under lock and key.
And to release Guantanamo Bay detainees on US soil, to US prison, that’s like putting the knife to America’s wrist.
How is that Ric?
You put detainees on US soil, and then they are subject to the judicial Court system. How many will walk away free? Even the few that walk will have the potential to cause another 911.
You can’t fight a terrorist war in a civilian Court. You cannot fight any war in a civilian court. And forget negotiations. How can you negotiate with terrorist?
RAC, who's side are you on anyways?
When I said, “You can’t fight a terrorist war in a civilian Court”. I meant to say, “You can’t fight a terrorist war in any Court”.
Ric, If you can't come up with a legitimate argument you should just shut the fuck up. Stooping to low class bullshit really makes you look like an idiot.
BTW, why don't you ask Timothy McVeigh how the Federal courts handle terrorism cases. Oh wait, you can't... we already executed him!
Sean, you go!!!
Mat, remember Obama has said that "war on terror" will not be used any more. There for it no longer exists. And, you are right. Remember how many liberals have said that we deserved what we got on 9/11. It was our fault according to liberals.
About the only thing I liked about the Bush administration was that he was willing to fight terrorists and those who threatened America.
Ric, you are right. Sean has brought up a great point. Setting terrorist free wont to anything but hurt America and Kill Americans. But Ric, remember the liberals think that your friends co-workers were guilty, and deserved to die. Ric, I hope that no liberal tries to attack Sean on this one.
RAC, you know that some of those who were set free during the Bush administration did go back to Afghanistan and did kill Americans. So, it has been proven that they have and thus, will.
Mat, this goes back to what you said about the liberals not ever being able to say or admit wrong. RAC is not willing to say that this will keep us safer. Ric, remember the stories you told me of when you served as guard at the Cuban camps? How did that make America safer, although, without you and those who served with you, we would have been allot more at danger.
Does anyone remember that Clinton wanted to take Bin laden to court? If he would have killed Bin Laden when he had the chance, 9/11 would not have happened. Timothy McVeigh was the only terrorist put to death in America. Look at FIRE or whatever they called themselves. Clinton gave them a full pardon. Look at Obama's friends who are terrorists, he announced his candidacy at there house. How is a friend of terrorists spouse to fight them? No, he will do whatever he needs to free the terrorists. If Obama brings them onto American soil, and the liberal court system finds them innocent, they will be set free on American soil. Obama will then pardon them.
LOL - right on que. ;)
RAC, thats me, enter stage right. :)
Liberals think we deserved what we got on 9/11???? WTF??? I'm putting that one on my "Dumbest Things Posted on The Dean's Circle Blog".
Cindy do you want quotes????
I will expect an apology form you. I did not say "all liberals".
Hey what is that liberal professor form Colorado's name?
There was that professor at Columbia university that wished for a "million Mogadishu" as a result of our response to 9/11.
How many more liberals do you want Cindy? Remember the "protest video", that was made by a liberal. These are all because of 9/11 and our deserving it.
Danny Glover said it was our actions that brought on 9/11. He is liberal. How many more????
You posted the protest video about the military, how about that?
How can you not think that posting a "protest vidie" showing dead American Solders/Sailors/Airman/and/or Marins the "dumbest thing"?
I thought Conservatives believed in upholding the Constitution of the United States? Maybe only the part about giving them the right to have their guns?
Guantanamo was created to avoid US law and courts.
Thomas Wilner. "We Don't Need Guantanamo Bay". Wall Street. December 22, 2008 - "closing the detention facility there does not mean that we cannot detain people. Guantanamo is only a place. But it is a place chosen by the Bush administration for a single purpose: to avoid the law. Because it is outside our borders, the administration argued that prisoners held there were beyond the jurisdiction of our courts and the protections of the Constitution. The Supreme Court has now rejected those arguments."
Cindy, what do you know about the Constitution?
See, the President has the power to hold military tribunals, and remember that these insurgents do not fall under the Geneva Accord.
But by moving them on American soil gives the courts system the ability to take them away form the President/military. Is that a good thing in you mind?
"Fahrenheit 9/11"
What is President Obama's Pastors name who said something like, "white America deserved 9/11"?
Ward Churchhill, "U.S. deserved 9/11". Oh, he is liberal. yup!
The BBC said it was "Americas Fault"
Chas Freeman
How am I doing?
You liberals might want to respond with some on the right who said the same thing, like, Jerry Farwell. Yea, he is an insane little man. This coming from a Christian. He is crazy, and I have the proof.
"Billy Graham is Satan's chief servant"
"grown men should not have sex with prostitutes, unless they are married to them"
"the idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the devil"
Yea, go ahead and use him, oh, don't forget abut Robertson, who is also crazy, how about Orel Roberts, caught with a prostitute and then said "God will kill me if you don't give me 8,000,000 dollars"
Try them, give me a reputable conservative who would blame America for 9/11!!!
Cindy, I hope you retract what you said. You don't have to agree with me on politics, and religion, but to call me stupid or what I say "the stupidest" is wrong.
It must be a full moon given how particulary ugly and rude the neo-cons have chosen to be today. And they wonder why their numbers keep shrinking.
DRL said...
Cindy do you want quotes????
I will expect an apology form you. I did not say "all liberals".
Nor did you say "some liberals".
"...It was our fault according to liberals...."
"...remember the liberals think that your friends co-workers were guilty, and deserved to die...."
I should take what RAC said as an insult too, but I won't. I never was a liberal. So, I could not be a neocon.
But how am I ugly and rude, when I was not the one that has the protest song against the military, curses at others, demeans others inteligance, etc...?
Look, there are allot of stupid things said on both sides, I admit that. I am not the smartest person, you on the left have made a great point of that. I just hope that Cindy can apologize is all.
It is also the moderates that are leaving the republican party, and I say great. Let them. I will not compromise.
Allow me to attempt to preempt the inevitable upcoming post on me skirting the issue or attempting to outflank someone's salient and impenetrable argument.
As it pertains to the Gitmo detainees if I were king I would load them all in a rusty old trawler, tow them out into the middle of the gulf and scuttle the mother fucker. And I know there's some of them that are possibly innocent. Tough shit. They're going to take one for the team.
This in my opinion would accomplish a couple of things beneficial to society.
1.) Create marine habitat.
2). Significant taxpayer savings in the purchase of Korans, prayer mats, cous cous and terry cloth head wraps.
3). Test their swimming prowess. For those detainees that are powerful enough swimmers to make it to Key West, they will receive an automatic pardon. With this pardon comes an obligation of lifetime indentured servitude at Smoky Joes Gay Bar.
4). Provide the former detainees that lack the swimming prowess referenced above with their long held desire to meet their virgins or virginians or whatever.
But that's just me.
Almost half way to a hundred. Could the "three things at Wal-Mart" thread be in jeopardy?
Na, 3 things at wal-mart is safe :)
If Americans commit crimes, try them in our courts and grant them the full protection under the law.
If we capture soldiers on the battlefield who are fighting a war on behalf of their country who is signatory to the Geneva convention, hold them in a detention center and grant them the treatment agreed to in Geneva.
What we have here is something else. These are not criminals who commit crimes in the United States. Nor are they lawfull combatants / soldiers who fight a war for a nation. They are islamic extremists who owe allegience to no nation. There is NOTHING in our constitution that would grant them any rights at all. (The constitution does not grant any people rights, it merely LIMITS the powers of the federal government).
The white house does plan to release some detainees. Others will be tried under US law (with rights they have not earned, granted by a country whose rule they do not accept). This is from AG Holder. Perhaps the others (some in this video) will simply be transferred to another center at Bagram AFB. In that case, then what is this all about? Posturing and fawning by the white house to seek favor from our enemies. WTF? If "closing gitmo" is all just BS, then why do it in the first place?
Sean, This is great. You are like a large brain walking around and I get to correct you.
First of all, the "Geneva convention" was as many as three meetings. The "Geneva accord" is what was signed and agreed to.
Second, you are correct, but with the description of those who are considered under the Geneva accord. The are "uniformed military" under a country flag. That is paraphrasing, but these detainees are not a uniformed military under any flag. So as Doug suggested, tough on them.
Remember when the liberals wanted that Sargent who killed an insurgent in a Masque sent up the river? First of all, the insurgent was not in uniform. Second, he was playing dead. Third, he was hiding his hands. Forth he fired form a "house of worship". All of these are against the Geneva accord.
But remembered how the liberals wanted his head on a platter. Kind of like they are on the wrong side???
But good going Sean. YOU DA MAN!!!
Like Doug posted, this is exactly what you posted DRL:
"...It was our fault according to liberals...."
"...remember the liberals think that your friends co-workers were guilty, and deserved to die...."
It's getting pretty tiresome that you keep implying that just because I voted for Obama, believe in Gay rights, abortion rights, separation of church and state, saving the Earth, getting out of a war (Iraq) we never should have gotten in to in the first place, health care reform and abolition of capital punishment (a few of my "liberal" beliefs), I'm morally corrupt. If you knew me, you would actually find that I am quite patriotic, spiritual, with strong family values and beliefs. Actually kind of a goodie-two-shoes....never even gotten a traffic ticket, never committed adultery, never cheated on my taxes or stolen anything, never been addicted to anything expect maybe chocolate. Yes, I've gotten divorced twice..my first husband was a child molester, my second one was a drug addict..behaviors I was not going to live with....so I guess a big sin that I've made poor choices in men. I really have no intention of apologizing and if you keep making generalizations about people's morals, patriotism, and personal religious beliefs, I'll keep saying that the comments are stupid because I have no other comment for such ridiculousness.
Halfway to 100!
And you know what Cindy you're right. I can't remember you taking part in a single one of our misadventures.
Shame really.
The view from the top of the water tower was stunning.
Jumping off the rock was most excellent.
Cave exploring at Pago.
Climb the side of the English Building to the roof. Go in the building & get a pack of smokes from the machine and come out through the front door ground level.
Friday nights in the Grove.
Retrieving errant handballs from the gym roof at GW.
All part of the daily routine of a deans circle rat.
Yep, you were always the smart one.
Yes Doug, she even did her part to keep my dumb ass out of trouble. Like the time I caught the toilet on fire...
"This video and the recent Republican attacks on Guantanamo are more desperate attempts from a demoralized party to politicize national security and the safety of the American people... But what is more disturbing is their brazen use of imagery and the memory of 9/11 to score political points. Thousands of Americans tragically died that day, and for the GOP to think it can win elections by denigrating their memory is disgraceful.”
Richard Clarke, former counterterrorism official for Bush and Clinton.
Richard Clark's politics are well known by now, surely you are aware of that.
Would you rather we all bury our head's in the sand and pretend it didn't happen?
Let's be honest here, the dems are much, much more adept at using imagery, marketing and word substitution than the reps. We're just getting started.
And, since when are republicans attacking Guantanamo? I think the party line is to keep it open, keep them locked up and keep us safe. It has been the democrats who attack Gitmo, make up stories about flushing the Koran, hype up so-called torture, publish photos and memos that only describe the "horrific, Pol Pot-like" treatment of detainees and testify before congress about soldiers behaving like Genghis Kahn.
Let's not forget the rush to publish photos of our returned soldiers who gave everything for their country. What do you think the casket photos are all about?
Who're the real politicizers? The entire Iraq was was politicized (and prolonged!!!) by the left.
Have you ever watched the video of the barbaric beheading of Daniel Pearl? I've viewed it twice - once shortly after the event and once a few weeks ago. It is horrific, disgusting and very upsetting. I probably won't sleep tonight by just recalling the screams (agony of Pearl and exhaltation of the animals who killed him). But, you know what? I don't have my head in the sand (or in my ass). I want to understand what we are really up against. This liberal tripe about how we created these monsters and how gitmo is aiding the recruiting is infantile fantasy. Grow up and take a look at the world as it really is.
Come on Sean, you know 9/11 has been the theme of republican politicians ever since 9/12. If you played a drinking game and took a shot every time McCain, Bush or Giuliani said 9/11 in one of their speeches you would be passed out drunk before they were thru. 9/11 is your party's calling card (it should be, it happened on your watch) - too bad for the right America caught on to the lies.
No Sean, I never have viewed the beheading of Danial Pearl. I always felt watching it would be playing into the terrorist's hands and disrespectful to the man. I'm also mature enough to know what constitutes brutality - I don't need to watch it first hand. Nor do I have any morbid juvenile curiosities about death that need fulfilling. I hope you feel better now.
Still never said that every liberal is anything. Just that liberals are the one that say and do those things. Desi is a super liberal, and yet for the most part a moral person. If you look at the morality of a conservative and a liberal, which is more in line with Biblical morality? I doubt you will answer that, because you know the answer. Please don't say things about me because you are mad at who you are though. Morality is just that. Killing a child in the womb is still killing a child. Destructive behavior, is destructive behavior. Hate the war, fine, I hate war too, but sometimes you have to do what is best. Remember, the U.N. voted for war, so did the congress. Changing you mind afterword does not take away what was done. We went to war and until we can safely leave, we must support every one involved. You know I don not like cursing, yet you insisted on saying it to me. It was to incite me, I am sure, but it backfired. What good morals would you say is the liberals strong point? I doubt you will answer that ether. I do love you and am taken wrong if yo think I don't'.
Sean, thank you again. I think that the media should show the poor souls that leaped out of the twin towers to there deaths, rather than be burnt alive. And the beheading. Yes, these should be shown as a constant reminder to what these people do to those they don't like. Remember we have some fine solders doing hard time in Leavenworth for putting panties on men's heads. Do you see a double standard here? Let the liberals hide in the sand and prosecute our fine military, show them coming home in caskets to try and have us cut and run. I would guess if it was one of there family members who had their head slowly cut off with a dull knife, they would say fight on. Remember those who gave it all, and those who are maimed for life, freed the people of Iraq from a tirent who used chemical weapons on a whole populous, because he didn't like them, had rape rooms, murdered more than 300,000 people after the first gulf war. No reason to go to Iraq? I can not believe that. The liberals think if we just have Hussain a big hug, he would say sorry. Oh, that's right, he swung form a rope, thanks to the men and women of the military, some who came home In flag draped coffins. As we should never forget, the Alamo, Perl Harbor and the shot heard around the world, so to let us not forget 9/11 and the people who we freed in Iraq. Or are Americans the only ones who deserve freedom?
As anyone cries for us to leave before our mission is done anywhere, I will cheer the military on.
As I have said, 9/11 should be the new cry for freedom. Remember, we here hit 5 times under the Clinton administration, and with the exception of bombing a vacant camp, acedamedaphine factory, and few tomahawk missiles into Baghdad, President Clinton did nothing. That cost Americans almost 3,000 lives in one morning. Why should we forget? That is an answer I would like. To watch a man slowly being decapitated is not morbid juvenile curiosity, that is an insult. We need to know who we are fighting and why they need to die.
Well if you really want to get down to accountability and retribution we should find the people responsible for creating this monster Bin Laden in the first place.
What's that saying?
Ah yes, "the chickens come home to roost."
DRL,
I don't think anyone would argue that Hussein was an arch villain. Or that freedom for the Iraqis is a wonderful thing.
But that's not why we got ourselves involved over there is it? At least not at first. Or second. Or third.
Doug, why do *you* think we got involved in Iraq?
Doug, that is why we got involved. Hussein broke U.N. resolution after resolution. 17 if memory serves me right, but don't go off any active brain cells of mine, look it up. He was still thought to be a threat. Remember congress gave Clinton the okay to go to war with Iraq. Congress believed that Husein had the ability to war with its neighbors and Israel. We are Israel's last allie. So, Bush took over where the U.N. and congress said should happen. Don't try to convince me it was because Husein tried to assassinate his dad, that don't fly. Give me a reason that we should not have gone in.
Sean, didn't mean to step on your toes, I should have waited for Doug's answer, but we know why Bush went in.
I will try to respond to both of you since the question is basically the same.
We went into Iraq because we were looking for somebody, anybody to pay for 9/11.
WMD, alleged cooperation with and training of Al Qaida were given as the rationale for the second war.
Hindsight has shown those to be of dubious accuracy.
Yes the UN, Congress and in fact a vast majority of the people in this country supported the decision to go into Iraq. Based on the information they were being fed it seemed like the proper course of action.
Sad thing here is that while Hussein was no doubt a Grade A asshole he did at least serve the useful purpose of keeping predominately Shiite Iran in check.
With Hussein out of the picture it led to the resurgence of Iranian Shiite support of insurgency in Iraq. Between that and Sunni reaction to Shiite resurgence the resulting violence led to numerous American casualties.
So if you're asking if there's one good reason we should not have invaded Iraq there's your answer. Our presence has destabilized the region making it more likely that anti West fundamentalist terror groups have safe haven.
We had no end game strategy.
Doug that is an out and out lie. You know that. Show me the proof. I can show you that it was due to a U.N. resolution. But show me where it was to go after anyone connected to 9/11. Bush even said it had nothing to do with 9/11. True, they found some al qaeda people being hidden in Iraq, but it was the U.N. resolutions that took us in there.
You are right, after we freed the Iraq people we could not leave, because of the insurgents. If we did, as democrats wanted, Iraq would have fallen. It will not be until the Iraq people can hold their own, that we can leave.
Wrong on the end game strategy, it was to win. Now that Obama is in, we no longer have that. It will be like Vietnam now, just cut and run. We have to stay till the country can sustain itself. I do not like it at all, but it is true. However, just watch, Obama will cut and run because liberals will cry like in the Vietnam era. A whole country fell because of liberalism in America. Oh, and that whole region has been destabilized for centuries. How did we do it now???
DRL,
once again you show an extraordinary capacity for misinterpreting the written word.
Sean asked why I thought we got involved in Iraq. I answered with my OPINION. An opinion arrived at based on information and events that I have absorbed over time. You may feel differently. That does not make either of us liars. Got that? A lie is a deliberate attempt to deceive.
Your sophomoric and pointed responses often defy reason and serve little purpose save bringing the discourse to a level typical of the prepubescent.
But more to the topic at hand.
Of course we went into Iraq under the auspices of the UN. To do otherwise would have been illegal.
We went there the first time to save the Kuwaiti fiefdom (and quite possibly Saudi Arabia). We went there the second time because they were an easy target. That's my opinion.
If you wish to use the UN resolution as a crutch in your justification for our involvement that's certainly your call.
Okay I'm going to state another opinion here...ready...here goes...
I'd be willing to bet that those on the security council that voted in favor of the resolution authorizing the invasion wished they had their vote back based on what they now know. A FACT born out by the way all the cosigners of the resolution have pulled out of Iraq leaving us to figure out a way to extract ourselves from this morass. That includes our closest ally Great Britain.
You say our end game strategy was to win. Militarily we did, quite handily actually. This does not speak to the end game unfortunately. If it did we would have been out of there years ago. The invasion and subsequent upheaval led to almost complete destruction of infrastructure and disruption of security. Something that was either unforeseen or ignored in planning.
So here we are. Years later sacrificing lives and treasury for what. A UN resolution? Maybe you think it was worth it but I am not so sure.
.
Well on the surface Doug your "opinion" seems to hold water. However, the truth is that the infrastructure in Iraq was always in shambles under Saddam. He used it as a way to control the people. Power out here or there un- reliable water, etc.But you can bet your ass thet Saddam and his family always had hot and cold running water and 24/7 electricity,internet,cell service, etc. or someone died! And disruption of security? Huh? Does Tianamen square mean anything to you? People weren't safe they were scared shitless and for good reason. OK so we shouldn't have invaded based on the shitty inteligence we recieved I'll concede that to you but you we did and shame on you for even suggesting that Iraq was better off without us there. You don't even believe that Doug. What we should do now is figure out how to keep up the progress and give the Iraqi people a real shot at a chance to succeed. Iraq under Saddam was a haven for terrorists. There were training camps and Saddam paid the families of suicide bombers. We know for a fact that he had WMDs. Where are they now? For all we know they could be buried in the desert somewhere. Look this isn't the same as when our parents came up. Things are different now and times are diferent now. Terrorists are bad and they don't care who you voted for. They would kill you as fast as they would me. Are Iraqis living in squalor and extremely poor? Yes. So is Afghanistan. Why? Because of their form of Government. We have a real opportunity to make a difference in these peoples lives. Why are you against that? Yes Americans are dying. Freedom is never free.We don't have a draft.Every servicemember on the payroll signed up voluntarily knowing they were going straight to Iraq. For me thats real powerful.
Matt,
I said earlier that it's a wonderful thing that the Iraqis are now free.
But that's not why we went there now is it?
And actually if you were to ask those of the Sunni sect in Iraq if they were better off they'd quite probably say no as they were part of the ruling class when Saddam was in power. And regardless of what sect you align yourself with there weren't bombs going off randomly at markets, mosques and public gatherings.
You say Saddam harbored terrorists, I don't think that's accurate. Fact is Saddam distrusted fundamentalist terror groups. And the feeling was mutual. Iraq was a secular society where western dress and aspects of western "decadence" were allowed in public. Compare that to Iran where Sharia law allows for unescorted women to be publicly caned for their indiscretion.
Christians, though small in number, worshiped freely. An act that in neighboring Iran could lead to the death penalty for infidelity.
If this is to be a crusade of freeing the oppressed then where was the response to the genocide in Rwanda? The ongoing ethnic cleansing in the Sudan?
Spare me the Saddam killed his own people and had torture and rape rooms etc.
That Saddam was a murderous thug is beyond contest.
I just see no clear evidence that we as a country are better off or safer as a result of removing this nefarious despot from power.
Happy Mother's Day everyone!
Disclaimer: the above post is largely comprised of opinion and is not to be construed or interpreted as statement of absolute fact, or a malicious and self serving attempt to deceive.
There NOT closing Guantanamo Base, there just closing the Terrorist Holding section(s), on GB.
They're still going to KEEP a piece of 'American Pie' in Cuba!!
(Which i think wins 'The Funniest Placed US Base on Foreign Soil Award'!)
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