rac said...
I would also add Dave, that of all the folks on this blog, you are the only one who recieves a government pension... for life.
April 15, 2009 3:56 AM
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37 comments:
It's not like they just handed it to me rac, I sort of actually did have to earn it. And what I can't figure out is why you didn't take advantage of the same opportunity. Practically every American citizen either has or had the chance to do the same. If I seem bitter toward the Feds, it's not because of my military service; it's because of where they've been leading this country for the past couple of years. It's still the greatest country on the planet, but at the rate we're going, it may not be for very much longer. It's sad to see something dying, when you've spent much of your life trying to keep it alive.
I'll try to be more optimistic, cheerful, and happy..happy.. happy.. in the future. Don't wanna bring nobody down...
Dave, I have been busy lately and missed the comment you are referring to. But, I will say this.
I thank you for your service. Retirement is not an entitlement.
My point is the irony of your argument against excessive Federal spending and people receiving undue benefits from the government given your particular situation. Lets take a look at the specifics:
1. At 50 years old you receive an annual pension of approximately $56,000, which is $21,000 more than the median income for a male working full time in your home town.
2. You also receive free medical care and other benefits for life. A cost which I'm guessing equates to well over $20,000 per year in civilian terms.
Now I appreciate your service to our country Dave and I know first hand the sacrifices your family had to make during your time served. However, financially you didn't do too bad. Your last year of service you received a base pay of approximately $72,000 plus an additional $22,200 in a non-taxable Basic Allowance for Housing (BAH) benefit. Throw in the additional moneys for clothing allowances, moving, investment in retirement, free medical for you and your family, etc. your civilian career equivalent was greater than $160,000 per year. I would say that was hardly a financial sacrifice for you.
I would agree you are definitely smarter than the rest of us, Dave ("why you didn't take advantage of the same opportunity"). At the same time I find it ironic to hear you biting the hand that feeds you. Be careful not to protest too loud or you may end up in the same boat as the rest of us.
And yes, by definition Dave's retirement is an entitlement.
From www.merriam-webster.com:Main Entry: en·ti·tle·ment
Pronunciation: \-ˈtī-təl-mənt\
Function: noun
Date: 1942
1 a: the state or condition of being entitled : right b: a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract
2: a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group ; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program
3: belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges
I would add that Dave receives his retirement from the day he left the service. His pension is adjusted annually for inflation and cost of living (6% this year alone). By the time Dave reaches actual retirement age his pension will have already paid him close to two million dollars. He will then be receiving a very fat 6 figure annual pension. You're right Dave, I'm such a dumb ass.
RAC - the entry that applies would be:
1 a: the state or condition of being entitled : right b: a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract
Dave signed up, put in his time and is now collecting the benefits according to the agreement he made when he signed up.
This is radically different from the other two definitions where government confers benefits on people in a certain group or Dave feeling he is owed something other than what was agreed to when he signed up.
I work for a corporation. I have a retirement plan. I know what the terms are. Do you also begrudge me my salary and (eventual) retirement benefits? Maybe you think I also earn too much?
Which is exactly what I said Sean. I am not begrudging his entitlement - he earned it fair and square under the the contractual agreement he made with Uncle Sam.
Dave, you deserve it man! How I respect, admire and salute you sir! You are a much better man than I, and you have proved it with your loyal service. For any individual to sacrifice 20 or 30 years (30 years in Dave’s case) of their lives for the security of this County, minimally the least the County can do is give them a pension. People like Dave gave us security, now it is the Counties turn to give him some security. Dave’s pension should not even be under question or scrutiny. You do that, you may as well burn the flag.
Is that why Congress put Dave's pension under "question" and "scrutiny" in 1985. I guess they were flag burning when they reduced 20 year benefits by 50% for all future recruits because they thought the old rate was too excessive. I too applaud Dave's service and agree he is entitled to everything he and the government agreed on at the time of his enlistment. If you actually read what I wrote you would know this. That doesn't mean I can't question how much money our government spends for services rendered. Like Congress, I also believe the old rates were excessive. I also believe retirees should not be able to collect their pension until they reach retirement age. If a person's only motivation to serve in the military is monetary reward then they probably aren't the kind of soldier or sailor we're looking for. The people I served with did it for the love of their country and the job - as I am sure did Dave.
Your lack of logic defies description, Ric. After you came on here advocating secession because your team lost an election you want to question my patriotism? Personally, I don't think your views on patriotism even count anymore.
Sorry RAC, I never came on here advocating secession. Just posting news. I don't advocate it. And by you saying to me, “don't think your views on patriotism even count anymore” , holds no merit to me either!
;)
Bullshit. The title you chose when you where only "posting the news" was "Don't Piss off Republicans". Sounds like you were advocating, or at least threatening, what was the subject of your story... Texas seceding from the Union.
Sorry RAC...once again. I am not in the position to threaten anyone, nor is it in my nature. Nice try though.
Explain then what you meant by "Don't Piss off Republicans" in the title of your story.
Unlike Liberals; whom I have witnessed to be so easily manipulated or persuaded by peer pressure or idolatry, Conservatives from what I have seen/observed have a much stronger backbone, and tend to have stronger moral backgrounds. Does this make my observations right? Only God can answer that question. Maybe this is what I meant by “don’t piss off the republicans”. A person, or group of people that believe in the same morals strongly, stand there ground, much like the conservatives do. That is all.
Ric said: "Maybe this is what I meant"
I would think someone with such a "stronger moral background" would know exactly what they meant. Maybe you should take advantage of your "stronger backbone" and "stand [your] ground". Besides, given I'm so "easily manipulated or persuaded" it should be no problem for you to show me the error of my ways.
Listen RAC, I am not a debater, nor will I continue this debate. It is fruitless. I have my beliefs as you have yours. Neither one of us will change the others ideas or thoughts. If you to wage a verbal war, I will not lower myself to such a level. But if you would like to talk about how hot Sarah P. is, or how ugly H. Clinton is, I’m in baby. Have a good night! ;)
If that's how you feel then I guess you were probably 'teabagging' the wrong administration.
Well, judging from the last couple days events I'd say that the Republicans are already pissed. As to what or who exactly they're pissed at well that seems to be open to some interpretation.
Barely three months since losing White House control finds them flaccidly fomenting taxpayer revolt and tacitly threatening secession from the Union.
But since they're in such obvious possession of strong will, superior morals and commonality of purpose then we can be secure in the sentiment that they all know what's best for everyone else.
Doug, I can’t wait to party with you again at the next reunion! (You party-miester, you)! But I must interlude here. The republicans are pissed about the massive payouts (stimulus packages). But the rest of what you said was gibberish to me. But go and party on dude!
Ric said: "The republicans are pissed about the massive payouts." He then went on to clarify he was referring to the stimulus packages. Good thing too, for a second I thought he was talking about Dave's retirement package.
Just kidding people. It was a friggin joke. Jeez!
This is why it is ‘so good’ to see the Doug’ster post. He knows when and how to calm the waters! But really folks, I’m hitting the sack now. Got to be at work about three hours ago! Good night!
Wow Ric, you're saying that because I'm a democrat, you're morally superior to me???? I must say that's about the most ridiculous statement I've heard on this blog yet. But it's okay, I have become much thicker skinned than in my DC days when I went running to Mr. Bast because Ben called me a "slut".
April 17, 2009 8:53 PM
Well, if you really want to look at Dave's base salary I think we would have to consider that in reality he was on call 24/7 which is not in every civilian job. Also Dave, wasn't it a manditory retirement? Which limits his earning capacity unless he re-educates in something. I think his retirement is fair except that he should have medical options outside the VA.
RAC, you got me on the definition. However, when we speak of "entitlements" it is as for the people who sit on there duffs expecting the government to give them what they are entitled to. I take what Dave gets as earned over time. He did not write to the Coast Guard one morning asking for something not earned.
Perception I guess. But I think what has upset anyone is that Dave was lumped in with the generational welfare state, the illegal aliens demanding health-care and food stamps. You know what I mean. By definition, maybe the same, but not in reality.
I'm only going to say this one more time - quit trying to twist what I've said and turn it into something different. I never put Dave into the lot you claim I did. If you can't make your argument based on actual facts then you should probably stay out of the fight. Otherwise you just make yourself look (fill in your own blank).
DRL, let me give you an example. Take a look at Juliet's response. It is obvious she has taken the time to understand the argument before weighing in. She countered with well defined thoughts and ideas. She did not have to resort to making up lies about what I said to make her point. Using logic and reason she has made a valid argument which certainly has the potential to change the way I think about the situation. You see, that's how it's done.
I would add that mat also made some very valid points in a separate thread. This isn't cable news here, you don't have to lie to make your point.
Thank You Juliet, you are an angel.
Since everyone knows Daves pay record now, here's my side of the story. I've been living pay check to pay check for the past 30+ years, trying to support a family and raise four kids. Except for my 900 days of leave (which was a blessing) I was on call 24/7 : 241,200 hrs/10,050 days. My average work-day was 12 hours, and my mission, while not killing people or getting blown-up, was to save lives. At times my work was extremely dangerous, and I lived under a code of rules that sometimes made me feel like a slave. At other times I was 'living in paradise'. We went through hardship and sacrifice (just like everyone else). We had to move 13 times (not just across town). I was forced out of my job at age 48, in the prime of my work-life. Wal-Mart didn't pan-out, so I went back to school to use my education-benefits (approx $97,200). rac is absolutely right. I made out pretty good for a Dean's Circle gutter rat. If I live long enough, I'll receive my 2million dollars in retirement pension, and die a happy man. Plus, I'll have the honor of being buried in a national cemetery, surrounded by those who proudly sacrificed their lives to serve their country. I only hope that I live long enough to see Dean's Circle reunion II.
Dave,
watch yourself around all those students. They can be real "lefties".
ps Wal-Mart sucks.
Can't you just picture Dave doing bong hits at a campus anti-war rally wearing his tie-dyed DC T-shirt. OK, maybe not.
But definitely a big congratulations on going back to school. A huge undertaking that I'm sure you are well prepared for. Best wishes!
He'd be the ringleader of the Free Tommy Chong movement. Time to get back to your island roots Larson.
I can't believe you guys didn't bring up the fact that he gets the chance to be around young, beautiful coeds. Dave, wishing you the best!
Cindy, that's one of those things men can acknowledge with wispering a word. It's what keeps us out of hot water.
Dave what are you going to major in?
Major? I think Cindy already figured it out.
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