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- A nother sad note
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- Some of America's Great Men
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Apr
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The Dean's Circle Gang
- Allan Amor
- Becki
- CJGuam
- Chew Bird
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- Clay
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- Doug
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- Island Jewell
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- Pat
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- Renee
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- Ric Larson
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- Valiza
- alice
- amy
- booniedawg
- fastjimmy61
- illustrationISM....
- jinny
- juliet
- mat
- rac
- tophersguam
- ~dana
44 comments:
That car is no GTO or Mustang muscle car for sure! The thing I have to say about electric cars (or green friendly cars) is…the more electric cars you put on the road, the more power plants you have to ‘build’ to recharge the electrical batteries in those green cars. The more power plants you build to recharge all those electrical charged green cars, the more fuel you have to pour into that electrical power plants to get the ‘juice’ (fuel) to the green cars…. get my point… the remainder is the same. It doesn’t matter. Think folks. The remainder remains the same for/of fuel consumption. It may make you feel good, fuzzy and warm inside, or politically correct to buy a green car. But in reality, the same amount of fuel, directly or indirectly is being used to power it!
That would be correct Ric if we were to rely only on oil as an energy source. What you have left out of your logic is 'alternative' energy. Are you telling me that the country with the brightest engineers and scientist in the world can't figure out how to harness energy from the sun, the tide, the wind, our rivers and the earths own thermal core (to name but a few)? I would recommend you do your own research... you might be surprised what you learn.
I’m with you on the 'alternative' energy’ thing RAC. But when you look into it, most communities that want to set up windmills for electricity vote it down, because they don’t like the visual view effect. Like Ted Kennedy’s own back yard!
…But still, I’m all for alterative fuel, if it is environmental and cost effective!
And I forgot to mention, that…that is one very cool street legal electrical car! Zoooom!
“Fuck you Ric. Why can't you care more? Why can't you wear some ribbons on your shirt?" Mat, I have a lot of ribbons on my chest, and proud of everyone of them!
I’m a little confused Mat? I’m generally always on your side. Sorry if I pissed you off dude! You’re still my friend! I’ll always love you man!
PS Mat, I am drinking a good American beer right now, BUD! ;)
HAHAH mat - you're just mad because that pussy electric car would kick your Monte Carlo's ass in a 1/4 mile. HAHAHAH!!!
The most environmental and green fuel to date is fossil fuel! Oil baby. Thats right. I remember being in junior high and senior high(35years ago)and my hippy teachers saying "We're all gonna die man!" "Save the planet man".If we don't do anything we're dead in like 20 years.Really? Well here we are 35 years later and well,we're still here. Just say no to drugs. Remember the commercials back in the day?"Why do you think they call it DOPE"?Hahahha
Fossil fuel! Let’s burn the midnight oil! Every electric car on the road today is indirectly running on fossil fuel. Where does the power come from to charge those batteries in those green cars? Fossil fuel baby!
I’m with you on this one Mat!
But RAC, your point is well taken! Some day maybe, ‘cold fussion’?
BTW, I seem to remember someone on our block ran a Volkswagen on chicken shit. Who was that? Must have been "stupid fucking hippie".
But it worked! How did the chicken shit get to the VW van? Some vehicle with a high rate of fuel consumption must have had to pick it up and deliver the chicken shit to the VW van.
Yea rac, your electric car might beat me to the next stoplight but then youd have to stop and plug it in. Vroom vroom baby.Plus, I've got the "Cool" factor going for me. Chicks still dig a hot car.And Ric, you misunderstood me. I was being facetious.I was making fun of the liberals. Not you. Ribbons as in Red AIDS ribbons and etc. You know how liberals wear ribbons on their breast and pretend thy care more than you because they wear the ribbons?
OK guys, time for a KOOL Cigarette brake. Meet you at the bus stop!
Mat, I know! ;)
Ric, you are grossly mistaken. Tell me, exactly what is it that goes on at the Hoover Dam and Niagara Falls? Or this place? If you like I can give you references to a number of other renewable energy sources that have been in operation for decades. Chances are the electricity powering yours and mats computers right now did not come from fossil fuels.
And here's a little trivia for you. Niagara Falls has been producing "free" electricity since 1896 thanks to a guy named Nikola Tesla.
Good thread! Needed another one! Let’s let it roll baby! Good night, I'll be checking it out again tomorrow! Chow!
Now your talking RAC! Nikola Tesla, what a great man! A great rock group from Sacramento California…’Tesla’ wrote and sang a song about him, “Edison’s Medicine”. I’m with you on this one, not all energy is fossil fuel based.
But really, I got to go to bed now. Good night folks.
Yea mat, you might pull a redneck gal with that ol' beat up gas guzzler but everyone knows liberal chicks are way hotter. ;)
Yea rac and ask Dave how efficient the van ran on chicken shit and why everyone else didn't do it. You are so clueless as to what was involved in that. It was cool no doubt from a bunch of kids standpoint but not efficient at all. And no, Mr. Larson was no hippy. But he was the coolest adult I knew. He did stuff just to do it. Please don't go there. His Monte Carlo shares a lot of his technological innovations and when I drove it from Utah to Colorado through the mountains I averaged about 18 MPG with a four barrel and automatic.Outstanding with a smog era,altitude choked lung. Read some car mags rac. The future of our country is not wind,solar,or even chicken shit but cheap oil.Do some real research. So, What do YOU DRIVE? And would it pass the Obama litmus test?
I drive a Jeep - best American vehicle ever made. I was also a diesel mechanic for Mack trucks for over eight years. I'm going to guess I've rebuilt more engines and transmissions than you will ever dream of. I am not anti-fossil fuel but at the same time I am not afraid of technology as you seem to be. We did not get where we are today because we stopped at the horse and buggy. Maybe Mr. Larson's chicken shit car was inefficient but at least he tried. And today there are thousands of buses and trucks that run on natural gas. Why don't you take your oil argument up with T.Boone Pickens - one of Americas greatest oil and gas men... or I guess you think he's a pussy too.
For the record mat, an internal combustion automobile engine only converts roughly 20-25% of its energy into useful motivational power compared to 92% for a 120hp electric motor. Do the research.
The future of batteries? New tech could charge a phone battery in 10 seconds
Fact: The US imports ~70% of the oil consumed in this country - most of it from countries that would rather see us dead. This appears to be a bipartisan problem since our dependence on foreign oil actually increased during the last 8 years under Republican control.
... as did oil's price.
YES! My first car was like that little Datsun! (with a gas combust). I thought it was a 510, like mine, for a second, but no. AND the guy and car featured is from OREGON! Great story from OPB!
I had a Datsun B-110 sedan, with a 1200 cc, 35 mile per gallon rice burner in it, that ran 350 miles on 10 gallons of regular. That electric racer was a B-110 coupe. When they can get the endurance and recharge speed (5 minutes) of a rice burner, with a battery pack that doesn't cost more than the whole car by itself, then I 'might' consider buying one. As for the ol shit-burner my Dad built, it was gutless, could barely make it up Barrigada hill, it stunk and was a major pain in the ass to refuel, but we always had fresh eggs in the morning and one or two of those birds on the barbeque, once or twice a month. Those were the good old days.
RAC - we have more than enough fossil fuel for decades. We (USA) have a tremendous reserve that we are refusing to make available. We only import so much oil because we aren't "allowed" by the feds to take advantage of our own reserves. There is no sound scientific reason for this - only a political agenda from the left.
Sure, an electric powered car can convert stored battery energy more efficiently that an internal combustion engine. But look at the whole picture. It is still far more efficient to drill wells, extract oil, refine it to gasoline, store/transport/dispense it to our autos and then store it in our cars and drive about. We have eliminated (essentially) all the the pollutants from car exhaust - you pollute more by mowing your lawn for an hour than you do from driving your car for a month. And all of this is much, much less expensive to our people and our industries than any of the alternatives are today.
Solar panels and wind power are not new. They've been around for decades and have been in development for decades. They are still not as efficient or as cost effective as oil and coal (or fission) and THAT is why they haven't supplanted fossil fuels. One of two things can happen - someone will develop a new technology that makes the solar / wind alternative cheaper or we will run low on fossil fuel so it will become more expensive than the current alternate sources. This is the natural progression of technology and infrastructure. What the libs are doing is trying to artificially make the alternatives cheaper - in the form of confiscating our income to redirect as "investments" in these alternative, in the form of tax rebates on electric cars, etc. This doesn't do anything to actually lower the cost of these energy forms, it only makes it appear so. Smoke and mirrors.
Hydro electric power is great - until you talk about the environmental impact. The hoover dam created an entire artificial body of water (Lake Meade) - this didn't exist before. What was there before? Other dams have required the flooding of many, many acres of land that otherwise were used by critters and actual people. So there are also many detractors of hydro electric - usually another branch of the libs.
Nuclear power generation has long been the enemy of the left - did you miss that talking points memo?
Wind power takes a lot of space and is ugly - too ugly for the Kennedys, to be sure.
So, why not tap our own natural resources? Why not build nuclear power plants? You cannot make the argument that "green power" will in any way be better for our economy - it is simply more expensive and therefore a burden on our corporations and citizens.
I repeat, oil imports and prices increased during the last 8 years of Republican control. So how is this a purely "Lib" issue? Maybe someday you'll quit listening to your own propaganda and figure out how the world actually works.
And when did I say I was against nuclear power? There you go trying to put people into boxes and labeling them to your world view.
It is a liberal issue because reps are saying drill! and dems are saying no. I think that's pretty cut and dry.
So why didn't reps drill when they had total control for 6 years. You could have skirted any existing environmental laws you wanted. I think our energy future is not as simplistic as you seem to imply. This country was not "built on the backs of dead dinosaurs", it was built on American ingenuity.
Which BO will replace with central control. You can't mandate ingenuity any more than you cam mandate social change.
Let's take a moment and try to examine this issue absent the partisan territory marking. It's probably reasonable to look at a couple of immutable facts pertaining to oil specifically and global energy demand in general. When I say facts I mean to say that these are concepts largely held as truth by most sides of a broad spectrum of interests.
Oil is a finite resource. A case can be made for drilling I'm sure but eventually it will run out. It is a mathematical certainty. This is happening now to a degree in that readily accessible holes are fewer and farther between.
Drilling and exploration are not cheap. The average exploratory drill will run you in the neighborhood of $100 million.
Even if a new honey hole was discovered and drilling started today it would conservatively be 5-7 years before any oil from this new dig would be sent for refining.
Speaking of refining, US Refineries are at near capacity as it is now. We haven't built a new one since the '70's. Even if an extra 10,000 Barrells a day fell out of the sky it would make little difference in the price of end user products.
Oil is a fungible resource commodity. Simply put this means that regardless of where the oil is drilled and refined it's price and availability will be driven primarily by global market demand. As long as Chinese and Indian demand for oil increases the price will go up correspondingly with decreasing supply. Drilling for, and finding new oil fields on US soil will not necessarily ease the burden on the American consumer.
An earlier post related to ...libs trying to artificially make alternatives cheaper...
Well is this not unlike taxpayer subsidies to Oil Companies of an average $25 Billion a year? To say nothing of the $50 Billion or so we spend annually safeguarding Mideast oil. A portion of the profits to which go to the lunatics that wish to see us dead and the sooner the better.
But again I digress. I do not wish for this to become a left vs. right peeing match because it shouldn't be.
It is a matter of utmost national security that all viable means of energy other than oil be aggressively explored. Preferably renewable.
Are they viable now and ready to replace oil? No. Does that mean that they can't be? Not necessarily.
One thing is sure is that to continue to rely on and hope for more abundant oil ad infinitum is short sighted folly.
You kind of can Sean. When the CAFE standards were introduced the auto industry had no problem applying their ingenuity to solve the problem. That's kind of how business works - you set a goal then come up with ways to meet it. "Necessity, who is the mother of invention." –Plato
Well, I for one believe, and don't freak out you dinosaur theorists, that oil is a renewable, reoccurring, never ending source of energy. The earth brews oil. You can suck on it for 1000 years and it will just keep on coming. All this hype about it being almost gone is a bunch of political BS. Everyone has their fingers in the energy pie, which is fine, but I do not believe it has been or can be proven that there is only so much oil down there. You go find another place to drill and you will find oil. The earth has always been able to renew and replenish itself, with or without man's help. So drill-baby-drill... If windmills were really the answer, every home and business in the world would have one. Same goes for solar. If the wind doesn’t blow and the sun don't shine... you’re screwed. A healthy combination of every energy source... including 'domestic' oil, in my book, is the way to go.
The earth may brew oil but not at near the rate that we're siphoning it out.
And the Monte carlo is still a chick magnet. Everywhere we take it women walk up and say man that car is so cool. My wife hates it though. And yea it slurps up the fuel. No less than 87 octane will do. It has such a manly carbon footprint! Hahahaha.Bring on you wind up toys and I will crush them.
RAC - CAFE standards were "no problem"? How much of an impact to the new cafe standards have on the automobile industry? In terms of the engineering expense (consumers pay this when they buy cars), in terms of the crappy cars that are turned out in order to meet the averages, in terms of the safety and performance sacrifices that will be made. It is, after all, pure physics - you have to cut the weight or cut the performance.
Doug - we've been hearing for how many years how the domestic oil production would be 5-7 years out if we started today? I have doubts about this figure in any case, I think the reality is a lot shorter.
No doubt though, we also need more refineries. We are importing refined gasoline in addition to the crude oil but we aren't building any more refineries. It isn't that oil companies don't want to - the red tape and regulation make the approval process a matter of years. Again this probably wouldn't preclude new refineries, but when you add the associated risk of spending millions just to get approval knowing that it could be denied - or the regs could change - it makes it a very unattractive business proposition.
Doug made the most important point on this thread - oil is a world commodity. Any oil recovered from Alaska has just as good a chance of ending up in China as it does in Arkansas. And for the same price too.
2010 Shelby GT500
The muscle behind the New 2010 Shelby GT500 is a supercharged and intercooled 5.4-liter 32-valve V8 engine that's capable of delivering 540 horsepower and 510 lb.-ft. of torque. The engine is mated to a quick-shifting and smooth Tremec 6-speed manual transmission. SVT performance-tuned suspension components, unique 18-inch bright machined-aluminum wheels with SVT center cap (convertible) or 19" premium painted wheels (coupe), and sport bucket seats with leather seating surfaces are additional features that push this spectacular vehicle to the forefront of the herd.
540 horsepower and 510 lb.-ft. of torque and still meets CAFE standards. Hardly a "crappy car" I'd say. American ingenuity baby!!!
And Synthetic oil is some of the best lube on the planet. Why not go synthetic? That's right baby... politics. Hey rac for once we agree, that is one sweet ride. Even if it is a Ford.
First of all - everyone knows that Ford Sucks!
Secondly - CAFE is Corporate AVERAGE Fuel Economy. One car model doesn't meet or fail to meet the CAFE standard, but rather the average of all the cars sold by a manufacturer are used to determine CAFE compliance for that auto maker. Sell too many GT500's? You've got to sell more Focus coupes to make up for it or else pay fines. The standard in 2007 was 27.5 MPG. The GT500 gets 14/22 MPG so everyone sold will bring DOWN the CAFE for FoMoCo.
The 2007 Energy and Security Act - signed by president Bush - mandates a CAFE of 35 MPG by 2020! Do you think cars like the GT500 (or Z06 or Camaro SS) will survive that? We'll be driving tiny little boxes with egg-beater engines.
Drats... Sean did his homework on this one. But did you see that electric car kick ass at the track? That was cool.
RAC - All politics aside, electrics cars can have some fierce acceleration. No gears, all the torque all the time! I saw a TV show (or maybe it was car and driver) that pitted an electric versus a gas power race car. It was quite interesting.
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