An email from my mother today told me about the snow she received on her roof overnight. DRL also told me that there was new snow at his place this morning. Today in Arizona a cool front came through and lowered the temperatures 5-10 degrees lower than normal for this time of year. With all the so called "climate change" going around, I thought it would be interesting to have everyone post their thoughts.
Check this out for one side of the debate:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353844,00.html
40 comments:
We woke up to frost this morning in New York.
If I remember correctly, we are in an inter-glacial period.
HEY FORMER VICE PRESIDENT AL GORE, WHEN WILL ALL THE WARMING START?????? I AM TIRED OF FREEZING!!!
Oh, I feel much better now. But I am still cold.
I was talking to my brother Ric last night cursing the snow.
Juls, I believe it's real science. I love to watch 60 minutes and they do a pretty good job on covering major icebergs that huge pieces,like the size of cities ,fall off. Al Gore's "The Inconvenient Truth" showed precisely the rate at which we are warming. Guam is 90 degrees in the shade:)and only getting hotter.
I woke up to 70 this morn...the breeze blowin through my mom an dads house. We were cold. lol
Joanna, don't you remember it almost always was HOT in Guam, but almost all ways due to the humidity.
But, lets look at all forms of scientific studies of climate change. When we listen to those that 'believe' in global warming, they say that after decades pass, the temp. rises .011%.
When you listen to those that think global warming is junk science, they remind us of the ice age and other natural climate changes where human activity has zero effect. Just something to think about
Agriculture does best in warmer climates, while not much lives let alone grows on the polar ice caps. Cute cuddly polar bears will bite your head off and feed you to their cubs. Science is the study of facts and Al Gore is a phony... in my humble opinion. Wouldn't want to offend any tree huggers out there. Besides, trees grow better when they aren't standing on a continent of solid ice, in 90 below zero blizzard weather conditions. Ever see an eskimo in a bikini or speedos? If your answer is no, then it must still be cold up/down there.
A great topic due to its complex nature. Unfortunately, I don’t think there are any simple solutions. What I believe we are dealing with here are a number of separate but interrelated issues.
First and foremost there is no doubt that the dire global warming threat promoted by the media and others is intended to induce fear into the populace. This fear is the weapon of choice when it comes to manipulating the masses. What the agenda is I do not know but you can be assured there is a purpose behind it.
Second, that the climate is changing is an absolute. The very name suggests a condition of constant change. The evidence of the last century points toward a trend in an upward direction. However, there is also evidence that the Sun itself is heating up, and therefore the entire solar system is getting warming; something I would think we have little control over. The fact this winter was colder in some areas than it has been in recent years is not an indication of a tend reversal. All sets of statistical data contain anomalies which do not reflect the data set as a whole.
Lastly, that man has had a negative impact on his environment is not even open for debate; I don’t need scientific evidence to tell me that, as I have witnessed these changes first hand over the last 47 years. There isn’t enough space on this blog to list the damage we have imparted on our planet. What I absolutely don’t understand is this notion that being good stewards of our environment is an evil undertaking. To follow the logic of some political pundits you would think the sooner we destroy the planet the better. Apparently suicidal tendencies are not uncommon among Washington whores.
And yes Dave, I agree Al Gore is a phony. But did you really have to go with the bikini wearing eskimo visual?
Pave the world baby! My Caprice needs room to run.vroom vroom.
Drive it like you stole it oh yea!
I don't believe humans in this day and age are not contributing to the climate getting warmer and I do believe in Al Gore.We all have opinions that we feel are founded or not.It's America. At least we can say what we believe and not get drug off somewhere and then charged for the bullet.
RAC is correct. Mars has been warming up as well. When I was in the Navy, one of my jobs was tracking the weather. One of the first things we learned was that climate is fluid. I remember in the '70's that another ice age was on its way. Now it is warming up. I can agree that we are ether warmer or colder year to year. I just don't think that man has much if anything to do with it. Exon Valdese, one of the worst man made (non war) desasters. The coast off of Valdese Alaska is pristene today, and the wild life thrives. I live in an area where loging was one of the two major incomes. Clinton put an end to that, and no visual damadge is done because of the loging in the past. For every 1 tree that was cut, 20 were planted in its place. The trees are so thick in places, the Forest Service actualy goes in and thins them down. The earth has a dinamic way of healing herself. Nature is much greater than man. There have been ice ages and dust bowls in the past, and will be in the future. Someone with an agenda (Kiota (sp) agrement) is someone to take with a grain of sand.
Drl,yes they drill deep inside the ice and every 100,000 yrs. or so, there's an ice age. That is scientifically proven. I watch a lot of documentaries and have a few years of college to know this. To each his/her own.
Great comments, Joanna. Don't be intimidated by the right-wing conspiracy on this blog (lol). It takes a lot of guts to stand up for what you believe. And though some here may not agree with you, I can assure you they all love your input. For the most part you and I are of the same mind on this subject. I just don't trust anything any politician tells me (Al Gore). Remember I'm a pedophile priest... oops, I meant conspiracy nut.
Funny,RAC!
Great discussion guys and dolls. Over all I agree that humans haven't done enough to prevent the destruction of the planet, however like DRL said, the planet has a unique way of healing itself. I don't trust Gore either. In all honesty I don't trust most politicians simply because they are after all "negotiators of deals". I give you what you want if you give me what I want. Most are not really concerned about what the tax payer wants (that is all of us) unless it means getting re-elected.
Sounds like a few of you may be interested in some toxic waste from the factory I work at. Due to EPA regulations we have to pay a pretty penny to get rid of it so you can probably pick some up pretty cheap. I hear it makes an excellent vitamin supplement and hand sanitizer. Besides, think of all the extra limbs your grandchildren will be born with... more is always better, right? Just meet me around back tonight and I'll see what I can do.
Juls, good one. If karma made me scrape ice off windows, then Hugh Hefner must have been a verry good boy, na.
Thanks anyway RAC, but I just live down the road from the INEL (nuculear site), it is over our aquaferd, I get to drink all they can dump every day. I just hate changing my diet, it upsets my digestive track, ha
Sweet DRL, bring some down to the reunion. We can use it to wash the chicken and then add the run-off to the margaritas. ;-)
Oh, yea, great idea. What would we call it? Urainium ville 238?
I love the smell of toxic waste in the morning.
Wow Juls, you can still smell? We feel lucky to have children with only 3 additional limbs.
Anyone here see the irony in a global warming discussion from a group that chose their reunion site as Las Vegas in late July?
Doug I know, some of us will spontainously cumbust.
Mix heat + alcohol + stupidity = BOOM!
Jules: Tax payers = all of us? I don't think so. A significant portion really don't pay taxes. Some even get tax back when they didn't pay anything in the first place (i.e. earned income credit).
Humans have a very short memory and an extremely short view of history, in archeological scales. We think that just because we buy beach front property today it will always be that way, but that just isn't the case. The shore lines change, the sea level changes, even the course of the mighty Mississippi changes. Yes, we think in terms of our own, miniscule personal histories ("but, its always been that way...").
For the record, Al Gore stands to make a boatload of money if we continue to buy into this global warming frenzy. We'll all be trading "carbon credits" like they actually mean something.
E-gore, I mean Al Gore has made more money off of Carbon Credits than most of us will ever see in 10life times. Whats wrong with this picture?
Sean, your point was well said!
I don't get how anyone can not blame our planets demise on the human. I saw something on PBS, where mama birds were bringing back plastic bits to feed their babies. They can't tell the difference. The babies die with bellies full of plastic.
I recycle, but I know I could do more. Like not using plastic bags anymore. It's hard to give up convenience. Spoiled.
Sean, I have never figured that out, how does someone recieve what was not paid??? It is not just in the "refund", but in services. Please don't tar and feather me. I am 100% for helping those who are down and WANT A HAND UP, or need a "safety net", but not to pay tax most, if not all of thier life, yet receive services for a life????
Sean, that is the point I tried (not as well as you did) to make. Wait another 1000 years and see what is going on.
Joanna, I will not remind everyone that Al Gore uses 200 times the energy that the average american does. Oops, I just did, didn't I.
Pat, you are correct and I agree with you that we need to be good stewards of our planet, but extinction (uh oh, I am about to be tared and feathered) is not always a bad thing. I really don't think I want the sabertooth tiger running around in my back yard. The only reason we miss the Dodo bird is to say the name. If the cockroach were to be extinct we would all party (oh, we don't have them in Idaho), but we do have the Wolf, and they have desimated the Elk population.
DRL - about extinction - that's part of my point. People expect the current environtment to be normal (i.e. we have tigers now, so therefore we have always had tigers and must always have tigers). But, that's just not the way of things. Many species have come and gone and will continue to do so. (and, for the record, I do "like tigers" and think it would be a shame to loose them. But I wouldn't wag a finger at mankind if that happened).
Mankind also has no guarantee to remain the dominant species on this planet or even to survive. We do have the ability to adapt to changes in environment and other living conditions. We now inhabit all continents. If the average temperature were to rise 20 degrees (or drop) life would be different, but that's no reason to think it would not go on.
DRL - regarding taxes - I cannot believe that mankind ever managed to survive before we had:
1) lawyers to protect us
2) government entitlements to feed/shelter/clothe us (not to mention ensure we all have cable TV, home computers, etc.)
3) great leaders like Obama to make sure our taxation systems is "fair"
OK, of course I am joking. But the point is, we seem now to be totally dependand on society taking care of the individual, rather than focusing on the contribution, duty and responsibility to society by of its members. There *IS* is a need to pay taxes to pay for infrastructuure, defense, municipal services, etc. What we don't need is to perpetuate a system where a substantial percentage of the population is dependant on the government. How is this good for anyone?
These programs are always billed as compassionate "we have to help our fellow Americans". But all it really does it adict them to government help. In Brave New World, Huxley wrote of a population addicted to "soma". Well, our people are addicted to the idea that they need goverment help to survive the horrors of real life. They don't make enough, or someone offended them or some evil corporation took advantage of them. Again, how did we ever survive, evolve into the dominant species without politicians and lawyers to defend us?
No, if it is good that I pay taxes, it must be good that everyone pays takes. You want to raise the "minumum wage" for lower income earners? Raise their taxes! They will demand more pay (and get it), they experience the satisfaction of paying taxes and contributing to society, we can cease the Robin Hood programs that steal from the "rich" to give to the poor, government can shrink and, believe me, we can all be better off for it.
Some people have the notion that companies (whether the mom and pop shop or even GM) can pay labor whatever they feel like. This is simply not the case. Supply and demand rules the labor market as surely as the oil market (but that is another rant). The goverment programs allow employers to pay less for labor because the workers don't pay taxes or even get help through various programs. This means the workers don't *have to* demand higher wages. Ultimately, this keeps the cost of a banana or loaf of bread down, but it ends up costing us much more when you add up the true cost.
Sean, I think you've summed up the extinction debate quite nicely however, I would like to add one more point. I just read that all west coast salmon fishing has been banned after the catastrophic disappearance of California's fabled fall run of king salmon. The article doesn't state the reason for the disappearance but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that over fishing played a part. The ban is expected to have a devastating economic impact on fishermen, dozens of businesses, tourism and boating. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger declared a state of emergency last month and sent a letter to President Bush asking for his help in obtaining federal disaster assistance.
So my point is this, being good a steward of the planet makes sense not just because it's the right thing to do, but because our very existence depends on it. He who shits in his own well ends up with bad breath.
To your other point Sean, maybe a little global warming is exactly what we need. It is nature’s law that those who are too slow to keep up or too weak to fend for themselves die. It’s best for both the herd and the land.
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Friedrich Nietzsche
RAC, we do think alike sometimes. I could really relate to what your last 2 posts said. Humans do cause destruction.Heck there's over 6 billion of us...I don't have the last census reports but, I believe that's an aweful lot of people on Earth compared to not so long ago...
Al Gore stated yesterday the Myanmar cyclone and subsequent death of 50,000 people was the result of global warming. I find this statement both irresponsible and irrational given the lack of hard scientific data at this time(the bodies haven't even been buried yet). This ranks right up their with former religious nut job Jerry Farewell's claim 9/11 was Gods wrath against pagans, abortionists, feminists, gays and lesbians. Just goes to show that extremist fear mongering of any kind is best when left ignored.
RAC, you are so correct. I always am cautious when suomeone used absolutes or extreams whithout concreet proof. I believe that there are absolutes, but to use them to gain or forward an objetcive is lunacy (in my onw oppinion). Two personal examples. When I was an over the road driver, I go to church at the truck stops that had them. One time the preacher said that the Biblical "666" or "beast" was computers, and that was GOD's Y2K wrath. The other was after the abortion clinic murders in Michigan. The preacher said that was GODs way of getting back at the abortionist. I will say that I do bieliev the Bible, and I believe there will be a "beast" and that abortion of any kind is wrong. I walked out of both services after telling everyone in them what I thought (I do that too much).
I wish people would stop listening to people like Al Gore when they use tragedy to there benifit. Oh, a funny part of this, We had a weather man from here who believed the Goverment controlls the weather. He even said that there were square clouds. He was on 60 minutes or 20/20 or something. He no longer is a local weather man. lol
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